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Hot OK, Cold OK for a week then low pressure - what goes on?

 
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:50 pm    Post subject: Hot OK, Cold OK for a week then low pressure - what goes on? Reply with quote

Recently the cold supply to bathroom from tank lost pressure. Air lock I thought, so try the usual trick of connecting a hose with mains pressure to the affected tap. Result success - well for about a week then pressure drops off again. Repeat mains hose trick and : Success - well for a bout a week again. Played this game for a bout a month now and am getting fed up.

I can't see any leaks, the hot supply pressure remains the same all the time. Both come from the same loft tank, albeit from different supply lines. so the head of water is the same.

I am confused Confused . Any suggestions for reasons or remedies.
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Ian
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 32
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Hot OK, Cold OK for a week then low pressure - what goes Reply with quote

DJM wrote:
Recently the cold supply to bathroom from tank lost pressure. Air lock I thought, so try the usual trick of connecting a hose with mains pressure to the affected tap. Result success - well for about a week then pressure drops off again. Repeat mains hose trick and : Success - well for a bout a week again. Played this game for a bout a month now and am getting fed up.

I can't see any leaks, the hot supply pressure remains the same all the time. Both come from the same loft tank, albeit from different supply lines. so the head of water is the same.

I am confused Confused . Any suggestions for reasons or remedies.
has there been any tempreture difference in the hot water Question
remidies convert to mains pressure (dependent on what this supplies)if there is a bidet fitted in your bathroom this will not be possible, please forward details of what this supply is feeding Very Happy
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply

There is a single cold water tank in the loft. Seperate feeds from the tank to support hot and cold water.

First from tank to hot water cylinder and then to bathroom upstairs and wc, kitchen and utility room downstairs.

second from tank to feed cold only the bathroom upstairs (basin, shower, wc, bidet, bath). There are some residual pipes which are capped off running to other rooms where old basins were removed before we bought the property. Mixture of copper and polypipe.

System has been working fine for the past 4 years, and has only recently started playing up. Hot water pressure seems fine, it's only the cold which is not. Had the mains hose attached in bathroom last night and the pressure is fine again, but I expect this to change by next week. All cold outlets are affected in bathroom.

hope you have some ideas, because I am stuck.
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, forgot to say that the hot temp has remained static. No fluctuations in temp or pressure.
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Ian
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 32
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJM wrote:
sorry, forgot to say that the hot temp has remained static. No fluctuations in temp or pressure.

there is only one thing that can be causing it and that is air entering the cold feed pipe and at some piont the pipe rises and falls thus trapping air and causing an air lock Very Happy
the reason for this happening is at some point the tank supplying both feeds cannot cope with the demand and allows air to enter because of the water level being low in the tank.
are the connections to the feed pipes on the side or bottom of your tank Question and are they at the same level Question or is one slightly higher than the other Question
solution would be to either locate were the air lock is forming and re arrange the pipe
or add another tank to your existing one by linking it but please confirm other pionts ie that water level does drop to low through heavy usage.
check pipework first though because it might be a length of plastic wich would mean just re supporting hope this is of help ian Very Happy
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ian,

thanks for the response.

Quote:
there is only one thing that can be causing it and that is air entering the cold feed pipe and at some piont the pipe rises and falls thus trapping air and causing an air lock
the reason for this happening is at some point the tank supplying both feeds cannot cope with the demand and allows air to enter because of the water level being low in the tank.


I can accept the air getting into the system, but not the way you suggest. The tank is very large and I just can't see how we could use the whole tank to allow air into the feed pipes. If somebody is in the bathroom, the only other water draw from the tanks can be the kitchen and the only long term water draw is the shower (not powershower) when we generally wont draw water from kitchen at same time.

When we had the heating done 4 years ago and a new water cylinder put in, it took forever to drain the tank with all taps on, so it just seems unlikely we could draw that much water.

Our water usage has not changed dramatically (slightly reduced since we moved in having checked our water meter readings) and so why would this happen suddenly after 4 years of working OK?

Quote:
are the connections to the feed pipes on the side or bottom of your tank and are they at the same level or is one slightly higher than the other.


both feed pipes on side at bottom of tank. Obviously haven't checked as I am at work, but from memory, if there is a difference in height it can only be millimeters.

Quote:
check pipework first though because it might be a length of plastic wich would mean just re supporting


plastic pipe is actually rigid and the runs are copper to the bathroom, then plastic around the bathroom. Its a real rats nest and whoever did it needs shooting (I suspect incompetent DIY).

I will have another look around tonight, but if you can think of anything else I would be grateful. Thanks for the help
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Ian
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 32
Location: wigan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJM wrote:
Ian,

thanks for the response.

Quote:
there is only one thing that can be causing it and that is air entering the cold feed pipe and at some piont the pipe rises and falls thus trapping air and causing an air lock
the reason for this happening is at some point the tank supplying both feeds cannot cope with the demand and allows air to enter because of the water level being low in the tank.


I can accept the air getting into the system, but not the way you suggest. The tank is very large and I just can't see how we could use the whole tank to allow air into the feed pipes. If somebody is in the bathroom, the only other water draw from the tanks can be the kitchen and the only long term water draw is the shower (not powershower) when we generally wont draw water from kitchen at same time.

When we had the heating done 4 years ago and a new water cylinder put in, it took forever to drain the tank with all taps on, so it just seems unlikely we could draw that much water.

Our water usage has not changed dramatically (slightly reduced since we moved in having checked our water meter readings) and so why would this happen suddenly after 4 years of working OK?

Quote:
are the connections to the feed pipes on the side or bottom of your tank and are they at the same level or is one slightly higher than the other.


both feed pipes on side at bottom of tank. Obviously haven't checked as I am at work, but from memory, if there is a difference in height it can only be millimeters.

Quote:
check pipework first though because it might be a length of plastic wich would mean just re supporting


plastic pipe is actually rigid and the runs are copper to the bathroom, then plastic around the bathroom. Its a real rats nest and whoever did it needs shooting (I suspect incompetent DIY).

I will have another look around tonight, but if you can think of anything else I would be grateful. Thanks for the help

check to see if the ballvalve is allowing water to pass at the full rate and that its not partially blocked this could prevent your tank filling up to maintain a constant supply.
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks once again for the response.Smile

Quote:
check to see if the ballvalve is allowing water to pass at the full rate and that its not partially blocked this could prevent your tank filling up to maintain a constant supply

I replaved the ball valve with silent fill about a 9 months ago and seems to be filling the tank up at the same rate as original ball valve.

I will try running the shower for an extended period and monitoring the water tank. This is closest to the highest draw on water from tank at one time in our house. May even try turning on a few more taps to see whether the tank empties whilst I am at it.

I'll let you know how it goes
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ChrisR
Moderator


Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Surrey/London border, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder why the need is felt to requote all the text which is available on the same screen?? I shall not.

Have you had a good look in the cistern for any material which could get sucked down into the pipe, to be ejected when you reverse the flow? I have known pieces of polythene from insulation bags do this.
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DJM



Joined: 24 Feb 2003
Posts: 18
Location: South London / North Surrey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, problem recurred so I have had a much closer look. Diary of events below

Monday : low pressure on cold, so attach mains via hose and seems to clear. Smile
Tuesday to Friday : Monitor both hot and cold water pressure - both remain OK Smile
Saturday Morning : Left hot and cold water running whilst cleaning bathroom and having shower, and after to monitor water level in water tank. No significant drop in tank water level observed, pressure OK. Silent fill providing full flow mains at constant pressure. Smile
Saturday Evening : Water pressure OK whilst family having showers. Smile
Late Saturday Night, ok early Sunday Morning : Basin cold tap pressure seems lower, but probably not in fit state to make rational judgement. Sad
Sunday Morning : Pressure on Cold very low and shower almost unusable. Sad Sad

Between Sat evening and Late sat night no water would have been drawn as we were all out Confused

Rest of Sunday : Drained down system - which took an age and reinforces the idea that any air entering system is not via tank emptying. Noted that the hot pipe is a few mm higher than cold - again suggesting air not getting in that way or it would be hot not cold that had air lock.
Cleaned out tank completely. There was some scale an other debris in the bottom of the tank, but not so much or of a size that seemed likely to block pipes.

Attached hose to taps and pushed mains though up to empty tank. Examined tank for debris. A few small bits, but again nothing spectacular. Didn't seem likely to cause blockage. Did same to hot just for the hell of it. similar amount of debris to cold. Certainly not much.

Re-emptied and cleared tank of debris so the tank was completely clean. Re-filled tank and cleared airlocks to taps etc. Acceptable flow to both hot and cold. But noticed that cold whilst Ok was still not quite as strong as hot. Confused As they are from same tank with same head of water any ideas why Question

Now I hope this clears problem, but I doubt it so anything else I can try Question

Sorry for long post, but I can't spend every weekend fitting hoses to taps and am beginning to despair.

Thanks
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