Ask the Question

Rico2 · Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Cumbria

Hi all

I've just bought a small late Victorian mid terrace house. On the advice of my Homebuyers Report, I have had a PIR carried out by a NICEIC registered electrician. This has unfortunately picked up 27 problems! - many of which have been given either a '1' or '2' in terms of priority.

The Circuit Details are:

DB1, Circuit 1: Sockets
DB1, Circuit 2: Ex immersion Heater
DB1, Circuit 3: Lights
DB1, Circuit 4: Cooker

DB2, Circuit 1: Kitchen Sockets
DB2, Circuit 2: Shower

The more significant probs were as follows:

Code 1:

No rccb/rcbo protection to socket outlets (DB1, Cct 1+4)
Main equipotential bonding connection to gas service could not be located
No earth continuity to first floor lighting
Cables are not installed in designated areas (DB1, Cct4)
No rccb/rcbo protection to socket outlets (DB2, Cct1)
No supplementary bonding to bathroom
After testing this circuit was disconnected as it was found to be unsafe (DB1, Cct2) (assume this is Code 1 - no code was given)

Code 2:

DB 2 fed from incoming terminals of DB1 and connection is inadequate
Main equipotential bonding connection to the water service is in the wrong position
3 core and earth cable has been used with the 3rd core either cut off or not terminated correctly (DB1, Cct3)
No earth sleeving to earth cores at switches or ceiling roses (DB1, Cct3)
No earth sleeving to earth core at mains board (DB1, Cct4)
Faulty back box to single socket (DB2, Cct1)
No earth sleeving to earth cores at shower (Db2, Cct2)

The spark has recommended a complete rewire - but I'm not sure whether or not to take him at his word. I know that as a NICEIC registed electrician, he has to comment with regard to current standards. I've done quite a lot of research in order to understand what the individual problems actually mean therefore. For example, I've concluded that the lack of earth continuity to first floor lighting is probably OK so long as I stick with plastic light fittings.

My main concern is the lack of continuity to the ring main. As far as I understand it, this means a break somewhere in the circuit - but where is anyone's guess. I've read that you can get around this problem by installing a 20A fuse, as opposed to the 32A standard with a ring main.

Any views would be gratefully received. I'm basically having to wait until this is resolved before I can move in. I can't even get the spark to pencil me in for the rewire at the moment!

vince knight · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

All of his findings are well founded I'm afraid.
You say the lighting circuit has no continuity, not no earth which just means somewhere the earths are not connected probably at a light fitting.
The ringmain coninuity is probably a wire come out on the back of a socket. Is it on the live, neutral and earth or just 1 of them?
If it is all three and you put it on a 20a breaker the you sould be aware that you will potentially have 2 live ends floating about!!!
All downstairs socket outlets have to be on an RCD or RCBO.
The main earth bond to the gas and water supplies HAVE to be in place.
All pipework MUST be cross bonded to an earth terminal of each circuit within the bathroom, ie lighting and shower circuit.

What was unsafe with the water heater circuit?
Both DB's should be fed from a henly block and not doubled up in a main switch.

I think a rewire is taking it abit to far but it certainly needs bring up to min standards.

Vince

thescruff · Moderator Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 4419 Location: Bath

Do we know the age of the existing wiring, as that may decide whether to up-grade or rewire

vince knight · Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject:

If the lighting has an earth core then in should be PVC, but the general condition of the wiring should be taken into account as well

Rico2 · Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 2 Location: Cumbria

Thanks for your comments guys. I don't know which wire the lack of continuity relates to - doesn't say. I see your point that 2 live ends may be floating about Vince! What can the spark establish without ripping up floorboards etc? Is there any way he can narrow down where the problem may be using testing equipment? The loose wire in the socket seems the most logical location to me. I was told that because of the problems in identifying the break - I may as well get a rewire. I'm no expert, but this seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut to me...

I assumed the lack of earth continuity to the lighting meant there was no earth core in the wiring to the ceiling roses. I've been quoted £1100 to fix everyting but this and the ring main problem. He's quoted an hourly rate to look at these, but can't guarantee he can do anything. I assumed therefore that these'd be the most problematical. If its just a case of the earths not been connected to the light fitting, then that should be pretty easy to remedy shouldn't it?

The circuit he disconnected was the old immersion heater. The guy I bought the house off installed a combi boiler just before he moved out, but didn't remove all the old piping and wiring. There are some bare wires in the airing cupbaord - so just as well the inspecting engineer spotted that.

I get the impression that there has been some DIYing - but don't think the installation is very old.

vince knight · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

It states that there is NO earth sleeving at the cieling roses or switches so to me that means there is an earth conductor in the lighting circuit but at some point it has got a break in it.

With test equipment it is fairly straight forward to pin point where the problem on the ring main is, or at least which 2 sockets it is between.

Ant chance of a pic of a ceiling rose or the fuseboard with the cover off so we can tell an approx age of the installation?

Vince