Good heating, but no Hot water

We have a Baxi Bermuda B back boiler (in ground floor lounge) and a cylinder in a 1st floor bedroom directly above.

For around 4 weeks now the water heat has got lower, needing more and more time to get any new hot water.

The system is old, and as such the controller does not independently allow separate selection of heating or water, so to turn off the heating we have to turn off a separate manual valve.

We are very very tight for cash, even with the £400 boiler scrapage scheme that we are entitled to.

My thoughts are if it is as has been suggested the cylinder that is faulty, is it economically viable to get this repaired or replaced? – or do we have to raise money to get an efficient new boilder system?.

We have two quotes and suggestions, from the Gas board (with who we do have a monthly maintenance contract) who have suggestion a power flush is required. At £600.

A recommended local heating company, who have suggested a flush might work – but we should upgrade our system – they have quoted £2467.50 inc Vat (reduced to £2067.50 with scrapage scheme) to:

- Supply a Valient pro28 pro28 condensing combi boiler in the cellar
- Supply and fit easy to use timer and wireless stat.
- Supply and fit 4 trv rad valves
- Supply and fit easy to use timer and wireless stat.
- Supply and fit new flu
- Change system from back boiler and cylinder to combi system
Carry out full system chemical flush, treat system with inhibitor, supply and fit
magna clean.

Another point is the pipe at the bottom of the cylinder is completely cold, where the pipe in at the top is very hot. Does this denote a simple repair is possible ?.

Any help really would be appreciated, as no hot water with a toddler is no fun.

Thanks

[plumb boy]

Whatever you do, DO NOT get rid of your baxi bemuda. they are superb boilers, i ve got one myself. have you had it properly serviced? it may not be burning properly. also looking at the flow pipe at your cylinder, it s difficult to see it properly but the way it s fitted just dosent look too clever. that certainly could do with being altered. it seems like it has been a do it yourself type of job. especially if you have to manually turn a valve to turn the radiators off. very amaturish.I certainly dont like that thermostatic valve on the flow pipe, that could be faulty, but dont get rid of your baxi for a combi whatever you do. as for flushing the system out, i would certainly try the other things first before parting with £600 for a flush, which i must admit seems very expensive.

[AlanE]

Can you provide a few photos of the area around top connection to the cylinder coil showing as much detail of connection and the valve with white top please.

I will post further images later, much appreciated. One line used by the gas board is that Parts are no longer available for the Baxi Bermuda B - is this true or just a line to encourage us to buy a replacement.
Thanks.

Here are some images, on image 'boiler4' the top pipe is hot, the bottom pipe stays cold. In the same picture the red valve you can see is what we have to use if we wish to isolate the heating so we are only warming water.

In picture 'boiler 3' we have never used this, and when looking at this morning the control at the top more or less came off in my hand. Do not think this is connected with my problem though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[AlanE]

Before we go any further a possible major cause for concern.

Can you confirm that there is a vent pipe going up from the boiler up and over the topof the expansion tank please.

I am a bit concerned as there is an automatic air vent photo Boiler 2 right hand side just under the valve with the red handle. It looks as if the vent pipe mau have been cut and replaced by this vent. If this is the case DON'T RUN THE SYSTEM but post back. The vent pipe is a safety device.

Are you refering to this item that almost came away in your hand or the white topped valve slightlyleft of it and down a bit. If the vent did water leak from it? If so good sign.

Please post back about vent - I am concerned.

Spare parts for back boiler do you know what model?

Hi

Thanks for your reply, you have got me worried now.

So clear the images I have stupidly called boiler 1, 2 etc - is of the cylinder.

The boiler is on the ground floor - and is a Baxi Bermuda B back boiler. It is behind a fire, so I do not have access to check if there is a vent pipe
running up to the expansion tank. Does this help with the spare parts question?.

I have attached some more pics of the cylinder to see if this helps at all. As you can see there is a pipe running up from the cylinder to another which runs up to the loft - where the cold water tank is.

The white topped plastic valve (which must be a thermostat) is the item that comes away in my hand, but this happene after water issues started around 2 to 3 weeks ago.

Thanks again for you help.

[AlanE]

Pipes from the very top of cylinder are irrelevant.

Pic 6 shows a pipe running up its extreem right hand side in front of one with red gate valve where does this FRONT pipe go to presumeably into the loft.

Looking then at the firefront (in your hands & knees) the very bottom of the case normally pulls away and on the reverse is printed various instructions. Is there a model number for fire on it?

Yes the pipe in far right corner does run into the loft, does this remove the venting issue?.

The code on the front of the fire grill is Baxi Bermuda B. There are instructions but no specific model number.

[AlanE]

Yes the pipe in far right corner does run into the loft, does this remove the venting issue?.

But can you actually check it does vent over expansion tank?

I can check this in the morning, in the mean time it seems you are suggesting I turn off the heating.
And when you mean vent over the expansion tank, do you mean a vent valve at the end of the pipe - or should it feed into the tank in some way.

Thanks again.

[AlanE]

No it goes nowhere and shouldn't have anything in end it should look like top of walking stick with short bit overhanging tank but just open and clear of the water.

Baxi B fire front is listed as suitable for one of two back boiler units. Some spares are available ok but some are not. The majority of the functional, or operational, parts are still listed as available. I have several customers with these units and I have never shown them any concern as to non availability of spares.

I certainly wouldn't consider replacing just as a matter of course. But I suppose you will have to accept that sooner or later (more likley later!) a replacement boiler will be needed.

The important thing is that a back boiler by its very nature (it is an open flued appliance that obtains its combustion air from the room in which it is installed) and as such MUST BE PROPERLY SERVICED EVERY YEAR and this includes removal of the firefront to properly clean the heatexchanger etc.

This is particually so if the room flooring is wood or laminate!

[plumb boy]

something else to check is that the small header tank in the loft has got water in it, sometimes the ballcock sticks and the tank runs dry. the first thing to stop working is the hot water espesially if the cylinder is upstairs like yours. the B on your fire only refers to the type of fire, not the boiler. it will almost certainly be a baxi 552 boiler with a B firefront. you can get every part you need still. but im quite sure it is not the boiler at fault. the pipework is terrible and to have 15mm pipes going into the cylinder on the horizontal into a 28mm coil is an airlock waiting to happen in the top of the coil. but check the loft tank for water before you do anything else. the boiler is obviously working as you ve got heating.

I thought I would post to advise that my problem is sorted, at least for the short term. I will explain how in the hope of helping someone else.

A local plumber check things out for me, after I gave him feedback I had got from this site - and the points I checked again via replies to my questions here.

It did turn out that there was a problem with my cylinder, which we had suspected.

He also found a blockage near the one of the elbows in my previous picture.
He did advise that there was a lot of 'rubbish' in my system, some which he cleaned out - also he got partial access to the inside of the cyliner which must of helped.

This did get things working, but then led to a further problem of water pooring through my ceiling at 5:00 in the morning due to a poorly
connected overflow on my central heating tank in the loft. It was suggested that the water level in this tank was filling as there was a leak within the coil in my cylinder - which was sending water back up through what should of been the central heating tank outlet.

We then isolated the outlet pipe, which then sent water our via the overflow pipe that sites over the central heating tank- so we move the pipe up - so gravity then vented any overflow via the water tank / overflow.

Now we have hot water link we used to, but still are faced with either replacing the cylinder or full system.
I hope this helps.